More Miscellaneous Thoughts on Religion

Subject: More Enoch
Date: Tue, May 5, 1998 20:23 EDT
From: Pistas3
Message-id: <>

Just ran across the following list of NT citations and allusions to non-canonical writings.... 1 Enoch is mentioned or alluded to in:

Matt 13:39
Rom 1:18
Gal 4:10
Col 1:22
1 Thess 3:11
Heb 4:13
Jas 1:14
1 Pet 1:12
3 :19
2 Pet 2:4
Jude 4
Rev 5:11

from : Lee M. McDonald. The Formation of the Christian Canon. Hendrickson Publishers, 1995. p. 259-67.

Subject: Re: Jah20 and Misinformation
Date: Mon, May 4, 1998 01:21 EDT
From: JAH20
Message-id: <>

Jim<<Why are you trying to represent a religion you are totally ignorant of or if not ignorant intentionally dispensing false witness.>>>

Ronny " Brigham Young ( J.O.D. Vol 10, page 110)>>>

For those of you who may feel Ronny still has integrity I will post page 110 Vol 10 JOD:

Page 110 of Volume 10, Journal of Discourses
Journal of Discourses, Vol.10, p.110, Brigham Young, March 8, 1863

If the Government of the United States, in Congress assembled, had the right to pass an anti-polygamy bill, they had also the right to pass a law that slaves should not be abused as they have been; they had also a right to make a law that negroes should be used like human beings, and not worse than dumb brutes. For their abuse of that race, the whites will be cursed, unless they repent.

I am neither an abolitionist nor a pro-slavery man. If I could have been influenced by private injury to choose one side in preference to the other, I should certainly be against the pro-slavery side of the question, for it was pro-slavery men that pointed the bayonet at me and my brethren in Missouri, and said, "Damn you we will kill you." I have not much love for them, only in the Gospel. I would cause them to repent, if I could, and make them good men and a good community. I have no fellowship for their avarice, blindness, and ungodly actions. To be great, is to be good before the Heavens and before all good men. I will not fellowship the wicked in their sins, so help me God.

Joseph Smith, in forty-seven prosecutions was never proven guilty of one violation of the laws of his country. They accused him of treason, because he would not fellowship their wickedness. Suppose the land should be cleansed from its filthiness and the law of God should predominate, if a man or woman should be found who had corrupted themselves and thereby become diseased, that man or woman would be placed by themselves, as the lepers were anciently, never more to commune with the human family. Purify your flesh and blood, your spirits, your habitations and your country, and then you will be pure before God. This change has got to be before this earth will be taken back into a celestial atmosphere. No mention of racism here.

Find fault with me because I have wives! They would corrupt every wife I have, if they had the power; and then they cry to the government, "You had better do something with the Mormons; they are deceitful and disloyal!!" I am disloyal to their sins and filthiness. Cleanse your hearts and the whole person, and make yourselves as pure as the angels, and then I will fellowship you.

I say to every man and woman in this community, suffer not your affections to wander after that which is unholy; do not lust after gold, nor the things of this world. Sanctify yourselves before your God and before one another, until you are pure outside and in and all around you, and see that you faithfully perform every duty. Real racism material here.

Now, as we are accused of secession, my counsel to this congregation is to secede, what from? From the Constitution of the United States? No. From the institutions of our country? No. Well then, what from? From sin and the practice thereof. That is my counsel to this congregation and to the whole world. Where is the racism?

May God bless everybody that wishes well to his kingdom on the earth. Amen.

The time is coming when justice will be laid to the line and righteousness to the plummet; when we shall take the old broad sword and ask, "Are you for God?" and if you are not heartily on the Lord's side, you will be hewn down. I feel like reproving you; you are like a wild ass that rears and almost breaks his neck before he will be tamed. It is so with this people.

Have we not given you salt enough to season you? You have been sweetened with velvet lips, until you do not know salt from anything else. Will you hear now? If I have strength and continue to feel like it, I will come here and train you every Sabbath, and I wish my sermons to be like the raining of pitchforks point foremost, until you awake out of your sleep and find out whether you are Saints or not. We have a great many gars, sharks,

sheepheads, lamper-eels, and every other kind of fish that is to be found, in the pond; the Gospel net has gathered them up, and what may you expect from such a mess? You may expect the best and worst of all God's creation mingled here together. The foolish will turn from correct principles, go over to the wicked, and cease to be righteous, so that they can go to hell with the fools. I wish to have every man who rises to speak from this stand, lay

aside the smooth tongue and velvet lips and let his words be like melted lead, that they may sink into the hearts of the people.

Now do not think that I have cast you off; you are my brethren, if I have any. If there are any Saints on the face of the earth they are here. I am one with you, and if you turn round and say, "Brother Brigham ought to live according to his preaching," I answer, I live so now that you cannot keep up with me. Do not fret yourselves, I am ready to be weighed in the balance in all my ways, with any of you. Learn to live your religion day by day, and do right all the time. Let us strive to get more light, more of the grace and power of God, that we may increase therein, which is my prayer continually. May God bless you: Amen.

Also conspicuously missing from your rants is the fact that the first act of the Utah Territorial Legislature was a bill granting FULL CIVIL RIGHTS to the Negro (the FIRST of its type ANYWHERE in the caucasian world!), and Brigham Young's first act as Territorial Governor was to SIGN that bill! [the bill that is being discussed is the bill with the new constitution for the territory which included a section with full civil rights for Blacks  ed.]

But then, I KNOW why you ignore this data: if ALL of the evidence were given, it would thoroughly DISPROVE your charge of racism, and you can't have that.


In a nutshell, Brigham taught that the way slavery was being lived in the south would probably condemn both the slave and his master, and that the Latter-day Saints weren't equipt for slavery, which is something that most current Latter-day Saints would probably be comfortable with.

"Resolution on Integration," advertisement in Arkansas Democrat (Little Rock, Nov. 22, 1957, Arkansas Missionary Baptist Convention).

Whereas, in His infinite wisdom, for His eternal glory and for the good of man, God formed the various races of men upon the earth, separated them by geographical barriers, Acts 17:26, and encouraged their continued separation by differences in language, color, and other racial characteristics, Gen. 10:5, 32; 11:1-9;

Whereas God has never set aside his decree concerning thte three sons of Noah and their descendants, Gen. 9:24-27, but has taught tin the Bible that segration of the races was and is His desire and plan, Israel being a notable example, especially in that God forbid the intermarrying of the Israelites with the black races of Canaan, Gen. 24:3-4, 28:1; Deut. 7:1-3, 6; Joshua 23:12- 13; Ezra 9:1-2, 10-12; 1 Kings 8:53; and Exodus 33:16.

Whereas, being law-abiding citizens, as Baptists ever have been, with a genuine love for humanity and the souls of men, regardless of race or color, having proved our loyalty by giving the blood of our sons to defend the laws of our country, having never practiced violence to force the beliefs of Baptists upon others, and consequently, being opposed to the use of physical force either to hinder or promote the integration of free men anywhere.

Be it therefore resolved that we, the Arkansas Missionary Baptist Association, herewith voice our opposition to any force within or without our country, whether communistic, socialistic or other, which seeks to destroy our democratic and American way of life; that we reaffirm our faith in the whole counsel of God's word; that we declare the integration of Negroes and Whites in our schools and society to be a threat to the security of our

nation and contrary to the teachings of God both in the Bible, and in nature; and that we hereby describe the Supremem Court rulings which favor integration of blacks and whites, and the uses of Federal troops to enforce those rulings, as being deplorable, unscriptural, and not in harmony with previous decisions of that body, nor with the beliefs and purposes of the God-fearing and democratic-minded men who at the first drafted the Constitution of the United States of America."

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